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Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

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orlyo
New Wolly
 
Posts: 7

Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby orlyo » Sun May 05, 2013 2:39 am

Hi Ladies,

I was hoping for some advice or feedback on this sticky situation for me.
My partner and I are due to be wed next Sept 2014 but the thing is we don't know what route to take as in marriage ceremony O:|
We are definitely not a bit religious if we go to mass once a year it's a lot besides anniversary masses and that.
I think it's just that with you been catholic maybe it is expected of you to have a church wedding?? and although I do like the idea of a church wedding there is a lot to it!
My partner always thought we would get married in a church and that is fine with me I have no problems with that and I would like him to have a say as well.
But when I told him all that we have to do in order to get married in the church he was turned totally off the idea.
As we live in Australia and want to come home to get married there is a lot of paper work involved we have to get released from our parish here and get our birth certs sent over we have to do the pre marriage course here and then maybe again at home and apply like everyone else to get married at home too and the new priest in the parish is not meant to be very nice either and very forgetful!! Doesn't allow any music other than church songs. 2 of my friends got married in the same church that I would be getting married in and they both said he wasn't very pleasant even so much so one of the girls got a different priest to do the ceremony as she couldn't handle the other guy, lol!!
I am easy with whatever route we choose but have you ladies any advice as this is starting to do my head in now as I don't know what to do :eek

ladymacbeth
Major Wolly
 
Posts: 713

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby ladymacbeth » Sun May 05, 2013 5:47 am

Different people will look at this in their own way but here's my take .

www.gettingmarried.ie

http://www.gettingmarried.ie/documents/ ... nquiry.pdf

have a look at the sample PDF of the prenuptial enquiry - if you're gut reaction to it is what a load of hassle/ why would they want all that/I'm not up/this is ridiculous/who do they thing they are asking for all this then you should probably consider going with the civil wedding .
If your gut says , bit of a dose but not the end of the world and worth it in the end then maybe church wedding is on the cards .


Yes there is paper work but it really isn't that onerous. People like to make it sound like its a huge deal , its really not . Leaving it to the last minute to do it and presuming that mothers keep certs neatly filed away for their children is what gets most people into trouble !
There's a form , its a good few pages , most of it is yes and no answers . In your case you'll have to stay up late a few nights to make some phonecalls and maybe someone will have to collect newly issued baptismal or confirmation certs and post them but if you're living in Australia I'm sure you had to jump through hoops a hundred times worse for your visa !
You don;t need to get a hundred letters of freedom , your current parish and a sworn affidavit is perfectly acceptable .
The key to doing it without hassle is to get your information from reliable sources , most diocese have websites now and gettingmarried.ie covers alot . Most of what you'll read in forums - including this post , is just someones version from their experience - if in doubt ring the diocese at home . Particularly if you PP in Ireland is somewhat difficult. Ultimately no matter how much huming and hawing an Irish priest does if you do a prenuptial enquiry in Aus with the priest there , have sworn affidavits and your certs he's not going to knock you back .
No one is ever required to do two pre marrraige courses , if anyone says that to you they are wrong . The priest has an obligation under cannon law to ensure you are 'prepared' and sign to that on the end of your prenup enquiry , this all goes to the diocise for double checking and rubber stamping , most priests use the pre marraige course , some diocise insist on particular pre marraige course - ask the diocise . If you do an approved one in AU then it may be accepted . If you email the irish diocise the details of one approved by your sydney diocise they'll hardly say no , if they say its okay then your irish PP can;t really say no . Another way around it is to just do it when you're at home if you are coming home , again if you're worried about the interval between doing the course and the wedding ask your Irish diocise .

Whoever you are asking don;t ask hypothetical questions , ask definites that return a yes or no , then there's no confusion and you get a straight answer and move on .

Hundreds of people organise weddings from abroad , its a bit more hassle but in someways you're saved driving around and most people will be helpful on the phone when you open with I'm ringing from overseas .

about the music- this story always grows legs , I'm sure that when it comes down to it nothing you would have wanted will be off the adgenda, no priest is going to allow romantic pop songs to be sung , that doesn't mean you're stuck with hard core school chirch hymns - Veritas sell CD's of wedding music - the company is owned and run by the Bisops conference , there are CD's with hard core churchy music and there are CD's with the regular classical pieces that everyones has . look at the website - the songs are all listed . If your priest whinges tell him you got the song from a CD the catholic bishops association sold you ! If you have something modern you want , slip in an instrumental version on the day

With either a civil ceremony or just the notification of intent for a church wedding its very simple to do by post and they're set up for that . Phone the office , get an email address of the registrar and take it from there .

My advice - Deal directly with the source ! Don't read anymore forums , what applied to someone else may not apply to you . If its what you want it'll seem do able as you're going along- if its really just not what you want its going to be increasingly difficult as you go through the process.

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LittleLily
Most Helpful, Most Knowledgeable User 2011
 
Posts: 3682

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby LittleLily » Mon May 13, 2013 5:30 pm

Brilliant post

ladymacbeth wrote:No one is ever required to do two pre marrraige courses , if anyone says that to you they are wrong


I can vouch for this. We live in Canada and the second couple in our group are about to make the trek home to get married. They each only had to do it once. They both opted to do it here and had no problem with it being recognised in Ireland.
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Ballinacurra
New Wolly
 
Posts: 2

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby Ballinacurra » Wed May 22, 2013 10:08 am

There are 3 types of ceremonies. Full religious ceremony in a church. Full civil ceremony conducted by the HSE. But the third option that a lot of our Brides opt for are Civil Ceremonies which are conducted by catholic priests. They must have HSE approval as solemnisers and the ceremonies have a religious element. Many give you the option as to whether you want them to wear robes or not, and you have a large say in the wording in the ceremony. It has religious element, but not in a church. We have had these ceremonies inside or outside in the gardens. We have found that this option keeps brides and grooms, mums and dads happy that religion is involved - but accept that it doesn't necessarily have to be in the confines of a Church. You can see the list of approved solemnisers on the HSE website.
Good luck.

ladymacbeth
Major Wolly
 
Posts: 713

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby ladymacbeth » Wed May 22, 2013 10:56 am

Ballinacurra wrote:There are 3 types of ceremonies. Full religious ceremony in a church. Full civil ceremony conducted by the HSE. But the third option that a lot of our Brides opt for are Civil Ceremonies which are conducted by catholic priests. They must have HSE approval as solemnisers and the ceremonies have a religious element. Many give you the option as to whether you want them to wear robes or not, and you have a large say in the wording in the ceremony. It has religious element, but not in a church. We have had these ceremonies inside or outside in the gardens. We have found that this option keeps brides and grooms, mums and dads happy that religion is involved - but accept that it doesn't necessarily have to be in the confines of a Church. You can see the list of approved solemnisers on the HSE website.
Good luck.


Name even one ordained catholic priest in good standing with the church who performs civil marriages on the side in his role as a registered solemniser of religious cereminies nominated by the catholic church .

Also who exactly is the ' we ' who find this solution useful ?

If you are referring to a non sacramental marriage ( which is still marriage by religious ceremony for the registrar etc ) name a priest who will perform this , perform it outside of a church and perform it for a couple who have no impediment to a sacramental marriage and are both catholic as the poster is .

Norma_M
New Wolly
 
Posts: 3

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby Norma_M » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:25 pm

Ok guys heres my scoop!

My boyfriend and I are going out about 7 years. Like others here on this blog we only go to Mass once a year and to be honest I really don't want to be spending thousands on a big day out inviting people who only see once or twice in a life time e.g distant relations etc. I could think of better uses for our hard saved money.

I would really like to elope but I want to elope Canada.

If we elope in Canada will we be married in the eyes of the Irish State? I have read up on Citizens advise pages etc and I just cant get my head around it

"If you or your partner are an Irish citizen(s) and are thinking of getting married outside of Ireland, you should realise that the legal validity of your marriage is governed, in part, by the laws of the country in which you plan to marry."
"A church marriage abroad is usually a purely religious ceremony with no legal effect. Because it is not recognised in law in the country in which it takes place, it cannot be regarded as a legal marriage in Ireland."

So if we elope and its a civil ceremony abroad in Canada the company that I contact to arrange the elopement comfirmed that we will be legally married. But I asked them on our return home can we get an Irish marriage certificate here? so we wont really be married in the eyes of the irish State then? I know we wont be married in the eyes of the church but I don't think that bothers me too much.

Like what is a civil ceremony vs church wedding in Ireland? Need help ASAP O:o)

Aoife O'Mahony
Norma_M
New Wolly
 
Posts: 3

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby Norma_M » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:55 pm

The legal status of a marriage abroad is governed by the laws of the country where you marry. For civil purposes, a marriage certificate issued in a foreign jurisdiction is accepted in Ireland if you also provide an official translation from a recognised agency. Having married abroad, if you later need a copy of your marriage certificate, you can get one through that country's Embassy. In Ireland a marriage in church is also deemed valid in civil law, but (depending on the country) a church wedding abroad may not constitute a civil/legal marriage either there or here. If the church ceremony has no legal standing in the country where it occurs, neither will it have legal standing, back in Ireland.

what does this mean it so complicated

so if we elope in Canada can we have another ceremony here in Ireland

Norma_M
New Wolly
 
Posts: 3

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby Norma_M » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:59 pm

A couple might want their civil ceremony in one country and the sacramental wedding in another. For example, your civil marriage may be held in Spain, France, Italy (or wherever), followed by a sacramental nuptial ceremony back in Ireland, provided your local parish-priest gives consent for this in advance.

Alternatively, the civil marriage in Ireland could be followed by a sacramental, catholic wedding abroad. In this case, your church documents must be sent from your home diocese to the bishop of the foreign diocese. Most foreign dioceses ask that all documents be to hand well before the wedding date (at least two months). Make sure your pre-marriage course cert is one that is duly approved by your home diocese.

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LittleLily
Most Helpful, Most Knowledgeable User 2011
 
Posts: 3682

Re: Civil Ceremony or Church Blessing?? Help!

Postby LittleLily » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:22 pm

From how I read that, its saying that purely a church ceremony in a foreign country (the majority of countries don't have the same church and state ties that Ireland have) may not be valid. I would read it that if you are legally married in another country, following their laws, it would be recognized.

My friends were married in Ontario (although they also live here) so I could ask them to be sure if you wanted?
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