I was also keeping well out of this one as to be honest I am not sure SusanD is even a real person IYKWIM, some parts of her story just do not ring true for me but that is another days work. MTMR - you speak a lot of sense and I think you have said very well what I have been thinking all along. Just because 80% of creches are not up to standard does not actually mean that 80% of children are worse off than they would be at home. For one thing not all creches are as busy as others, I know my SIL when she looked for a creche could have easily gotten her son into about 3 quite iffy ones but, she kept going until she got him into one of a good standard which was much harder to do. So my point on this is that there are crap creches out there but they are not as busy as the good ones so even if they do number 80% they do not have 80% of the kids in them. MPA