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clucky Posts: 26471
mineis on a ''lads night'' in dublin
laveva Posts: 366
haven't stopped thinking about this topic, dcd and happyout, i get what you're saying. i'm not out to defend susand but IMO i really don't think it was her intention to purposely make other mothers feel bad, but that's what ended up happening which is a shame because it is a very interesting and important debate and we girls should be sticking together to help each other and ourselves out rather than having a go at each other. anyway, after giving the matter a lot of thought, i've pictured myself in another year or two, by which time we will hopefully have a child of our own and yes, i would love to spend those first couple of years at home with our children but that would mean giving up my job which i've just started. i imagine i wouldn't be able to take up employment again in that job (it's a very small company) once i'd given it up and when it is eventually time to go back to work, i'd have to go through a very long, slow, painful process of trying to find another job (i live in an area with a population of 1 million people where over 50% of the women don't work... because there just aren't enough jobs in this part of the country). what does a 35 year old university educated woman, who has run her own business and "raised" her young family, do with herself in a region where there aren't many jobs for women? ok so i'd feel great about having had a family but when they're all off at school, poor mammy is left to try and start her life over again at an age when it's very hard to start a career. so i get where you're all coming from in that it's not all that black or white, there are big grey areas in there too to consider. not everyone is lucky enough to be able to work for themselves, although that would be an option for me teaching English, but there's something about going in to work everyday and having the bit of craic with your workmates that a lot of us need, which i wouldn't necessarily have if i worked for myself. sorry, i'm really waffling now - just trying to work things out in my own head as i write. the mother's well-being is key to a child being happy, that's too important to overlook, so i guess in many cases a compromise has to be made and it's not that plain and simple to say i'm going to put my child's needs 100% before mine because if a mother ain't happy, the child's not gonna feel too good either. it's obviously a very personal choice but if there are research papers out there that prove that it's "detrimental" for young babies to be separated for so long at such a young age from their parents, it is good to be aware of it, read up on it and then try and make the best choice for all involved, because at the rate society is changing these days, i can't help but get the feeling sometimes that we're caught up in the ratrace and we feel we don't have the time or the means to step back from it all and think about what's really important in life. we grew up on one wage at home in the 70's, 80's and 90's and i have to say that what sticks out in my mind most is not the fact that i did/didn't get all the latest modcons or foreign holidays, what stands out in my mind is arriving home to an empty house and spending time alone in the early hours of the evening before everyone else got back from school/work. the happiness and well-being that a child feels just by being with its parents is much greater than any material goods, IMO. (to all the working mams out there please don't think i'm trying to make a point against you or pass judgement on your decisions, i wouldn't dream of it, i'm just tyring to get the overall picture from both sides). it's all very complicated, there are so many factors to be taken in to account and everyone does the best they can for their children. either way think i might buy the book written by the author of these studies and have a read of it for meself.
Dcd Posts: 1471
Afternoon Laveva! That post makes alot of sense, you're right, there is no black and white. I think that's what we've been saying all along. But SusanD has taken the very childish 'Prove it!' stance on this one, and no one can dig up individual written proof on the emotional needs of any particular parent and child. So because that can't be done, she honestly believes her way is the ONLY way.
laveva Posts: 366
hiya dcd. i was wondering, since you're a SAHM, will you be able to go back to your old job? or will you have to start looking again (if you decide to go back at all that is). I'm just wondering what it's really like for mams who have given up their jobs - do they find it hard to get a job again? do they feel sort of out of place in this modern world at the age of 35/40 when they haven't been in the workforce in the last decade? is having a career [i:1ncu3ghn]really[/i:1ncu3ghn] that important? or should we get back to basics and do our best to invest all our time and energy into really looking after our families? do you feel like you're missing out on something by not being in work or does being with your child all day give you enough satisfaction?
Dcd Posts: 1471
[quote:2a0he31t]hiya dcd. i was wondering, since you're a SAHM, will you be abel to go back to your old job? or will you have to start looking again (if you decide to go back at all that is). I'm just wondering what it's really like for mams who have given up their jobs - do they find it hard to get a job again? do they feel sort of out of place in this modern world at the age of 35/40 when they haven't been in the workforce in the last decade? is having a career [i:2a0he31t]really[/i:2a0he31t] that important? or should we get back to basics and do our best to invest all our time and energy into really looking after our families? do you feel like you're missing out on something by not being in work or does being with your child all day give you enough satisfaction?[/quote:2a0he31t] Hiya, I was a legal secretary before I had DD1 when I was 20, I suppose I could go back.. but I hated it anyway so wouldn't choose to! I'm now 28 and by the time our youngest is 5 and in school I'll only be 32, our eldest will be 12, so I'll have pleanty of options then :wink: I plan on doing a Fetac childcare course the year after next when DD1 is in preschool, so that when they're coming home from school, I'll still be here. I can then progress from there by doing extra courses when they're older, and still have a career, just one that fits around our family! That most definitely wouldn't be every womans cup of tea I can tell ya, but it suits me down to the ground. Career choices are very individual.. I couldn't imagine going to work in a bank every day any more than another woman would want to be at home with kids all day :lol: There is no One size fits all solution to childcare too!!!
Dcd Posts: 1471
That should be when DD2 is in Preschool!
laveva Posts: 366
yeah, i guess that's the kind of thing i'd like to do too - fit it in around the family... and i'm lucky that i can always earn a decent age giving english classes (i live in spain). i'm 28 too and haven't even started tho!! (the family that is!) anyway, i'm off for lunch now. gonna try and give my brain a break from all this :lol: have a good weekend!
Not so Bridie Posts: 273
[quote:ruaecc56] Do you think a child is better off in childcare than with a parent in home? Are parents who put their career ahead of staying at home to look after their children being selfish?[/quote:ruaecc56] What if they are being a bit selfish? While a child's well being is normally going to be a priority in any marriage, there are other factors to consider too, such as the parents' well-being (including mental health) and the marriage itself. Children may be better off not being separated from their parents for the first 24 months, but does that mean the parents shouldn't have a weekend away on their own occasionally? If the stay at home parent realised that spending the day with children was driving them insane, should they forced to continue? I don't know yet what I will do if I am lucky enough to have children, but while the main concern, the child's welfare will not be the ONLY factor I will consider. I would hate to become one of those mothers who has no life outside of their child, whose child is still sleeping in the marital bed when it is three, whose friends have kept a wide berth because she can't speak about anything but children and who, when the child goes out to school or the world realises she has nothing to talk to her husband about.
yadayada Posts: 1066
I think you summed it up very well Laveve in your post and IMO thats what the majority of us think. SusanD has been here before stirring it up so I'm not surprised about the reaction she received. Coming back with such a thread title was the equivalent of her brandishing a wooden spoon. While calling for debate she is unwilling to listen to anyone elses reasoning or take their comments on board. Her war cry is show me a study that say different then when someone gave her what she wanted she dismissed it :roll: I couldn't see myself being a SAHM. I just don't feel I would be happy in myself and really feel that I need the stimulation that my job provides. I do feel that I would be frustrated and that my frustration would be picked up by a child. However I am not going to rule it out as an option..I may feel differently when I have my own child although I doubt it. As for the argument that most of us were brought up with SAHM. Things were different then and a lot of women were forced into leaving their jobs when they got married. Also as the majority of women were in the same boat so most of the neighbours were also SAHM and there was more social interaction between mums. All the mammies where at home duing the day and there was always someone around for a chat..be it over the garden wall or popping in for coffee. Where I live most couples are gone from 8 till 6 and its like a ghost-town during the day. I get lonely if I'm off sick for a day :oops: For me returning to work will not be a financial decision. We can happily survive on one salary. However I spent a number of years working full-time while attending college at night, forgoing my social life, holidays etc so that I could obtain my qualification. I am also required to continue attending courses each year to keep up to date with my professional qualification. I do feel if I left the workforce for 5 or 6 years then it would be difficult for me to get back to where I am at the moment. I would probably have to take a job paying half of what I earn now and doing the type of work that I could do without my qualification. So imo I would have wasted all those years of hard work. Hubby is in the same profession as me so him staying at home would leave him in the same boat. I fully intend to avail of the maximum maternity leave which means I will be at home for the first 8 months or so of our future childs life. Ideally myself and hubby would like to work part-time...preferably 3 days a week each...but again in our business thats not an option. As for expert opinion..one week the experts tell us to do one thing and a the next week another study shows we should do the opposite. I believe that every child is different as is every mother. I believe that every woman should be allowed to make her own decision based on whats best for her family...and should be allowed do so without being made feel guilty.
Princess Cinders Posts: 11475
[quote:2b6kbipr]Afternoon Laveva! That post makes alot of sense, you're right, there is no black and white. I think that's what we've been saying all along. But SusanD has taken the very childish 'Prove it!' stance on this one, and no one can dig up individual written proof on the emotional needs of any particular parent and child. So because that can't be done, she honestly believes her way is the ONLY way.[/quote:2b6kbipr] DCD yourself and laveva have got it in one, there is no black and white. SusanD accused me of avoiding the question of what my opinion is on the situation but yet when Lucky asked her a question which i too asked - what would she do if in years to come her children decided they needed/or wanted to work when they had kids, would she try help out so they could stay at home. My prob with SusanD is the way she is putting her point accross - dcd describes it perfectly above. The title of her post "I hate it when I am right" says it all. It just makes my blood boil the way she goes on I wouldnt criticise or condemn a mother who decides to go back to work for reasons other than financial. We dont know if they are bad mothers. maybe going back to work makes them happier. Would it not be better for the child and parent to have a happy parent Lucky thank you for the nice things you said about me